Not only was Osiris born on December 25th, the same date celebrated as the birth of Jesus, but he also was said to have died and been resurrected.
Another God born on December 25th was the Greek God and son of Zeus, Dionysus
He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE.
Another God given the birthdate December 25, who predated Jesus was a Persian God named Mithras. The story of Mithras was created as early as 1500 B.C.
Another interesting element in the story of Mithra is that his birth was witnessed by sheperds who brought gifts to honour him.
Still another god born on December 25 who predated Jesus Christ is Attis. The story of Attis began around 1200 BCE in Phrygia, Ancient Greece (today's modern Turkey). Attis, like Jesus who came after him, was also born of a virgin and was both the Father and Divine Son. He was often referred to as the "Only Begotten Son".
Attis had priests who were "eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven" (who were meant to be celibate, much like the priests of the Catholic Church, in theory). There are other similarities between Attis and the more well-known god Jesus Christ. Attis, too, was crucified and then resurrected. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. Sacramental bread and wine was consumed by Attis' worshipers. The bread represented their god's body and the wine represented his blood.
It appears as though onza has done a hit and run. With all these gods to choose from, somehow onza knows there is only one. Apparently, he is privy to some vital information that would be of utmost importance to all of us! How dare he not tell us who the one God is!
Roman Pagan Religion: Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on DEC-25. He was sacrificed as an adult in order to bring salvation to mankind. He died about MAR-25, after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, as the solar deity for the new season. His followers tied an image of Attis to a tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in the form of bread. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200 BCE.
Greek Pagan Religion: Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well. Some ancient coins have been found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Egyptian Pagan Religion: Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again'" Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible. This included: 23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of the shadow of death and to green pastures and still waters
Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven..."
Many parables attributed to Jesus.
Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, were established throughout the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st century BCE.
Persian Pagan Religion: Mithra was a Persian savior. Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi. This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21.
The Babylonians celebrated their "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival on DEC-25. Saturnalia (the Festival of Saturn) was celebrated from DEC-17 to 23 in the Roman Empire. The Roman Emperor Aurelian blended Saturnalia with a number of birth celebrations of savior Gods from other religions, into a single holy day: DEC-25. After much argument, the developing Christian church adopted this date as the birthday of their savior, Jesus. The people of the Roman Empire were accustomed to celebrating the birth of a God on that day. So, it was easy for the church to divert people's attention to Jesus' birth.
Well thank you for the additional information hruthwulf, it's a shame you decided to hide your profile.
I'd like to comment back to Onza who declared on 12/16 that there is one true god.
Psalms 82:1 is very interesting: "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." This directly contradicts other areas suggesting there is only one god such as The 2nd Commandments "You shall have no other gods before me"; Or Deuteronomy 28:14 which states, "And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them." God acknowledges there are other gods.
Oona: Whatever you do, do not read the bible for moral code. The bible is filled with contradictictions and advocates prejudice, cruelity, superstition and murder.
Yes (Leviticus 25:44 and Exoduc 21:2,7-9). The bible is big on death and abomination: working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2); Here's one for farmers: death for planting different crops side-by-side (Leviticus 19:19 and Deut.22:9-12); for cowards and the unfaithful including murders they get a 2nd death (Rev. 21:8); cursing your mother and father---death (Leviticus 20:9); For all of you in a temple of worship, if you wear glasses you may not approach the altar (Leviticus 20:20); eating shellfish is another abomination (Leviticus 10:10) and absolutely NO PHYSICAL CONTACT when my wife is menstruating (15:19-24). There are a lot more. My point, if you believe what is in the bible is truth you can't pick-and-choose what you want. You must either accept or reject its teaching.
Thank you for your input hruthwulf, you do bring up some rather disturbing edicts given in The Bible. However, I believe it is Leviticus 21:20 that admonishes those with eye defects from approaching the alter of God.
God doesn't want to see anybody with kyphosis (a hunchback) or scoliosis (a crooked back. Nor is he keen on people suffering from eczema or psoriasis (festering or running sores). Better stay away, too, if you have Achondroplasia (dwarfism) or testicular cancer (damaged testicles). In other words, you'd better be in pretty damn good shape if you want to consort with God. He doesn't want any broken-down people pestering him.
A Christian apologist might tell you, though, that this advice was given the priests of Israel who no longer exist, and when there is a change in the priesthood, there is also a change in the law. See how nice and convenient that is? The Bible is full of loopholes just like our tax code, all you have to do is look for them.
Strange, if we are all God's children he (or she) doesn't want to deal with the imperfect ones. There is a great line from the movie "Lion In Winter":
"...What's natures way? If poison mushrooms grow and babies come with crooked backs, if goiters thrive
and dogs go mad...what's unnatural?"
I'm convinced that Man created god (small G) in his image.
and wives kill husbands,
last two lines should have been part of the quote from the movie. Not sure why or how they dropped out. My bad.
hruthwulf, What's stranger still is that God doesn't want to deal with the imperfect ones he made imperfect, so wouldn't he only have himself to blame for their imperfections?
I, too, am convinced that man created God in his own image, and here are two great quotations from women who feel the same way:
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
~ Susan B Anthony
“You can tell you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do”
~ Anne Lamott
I've familiar with those. How about:
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. – George Bernard Shaw
Faith means not wanting to know what is true. – Friedrich Nietzsche
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. – Frank Lloyd Wright
We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. – Gene Roddenberry
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. – Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. – Seneca the Younger
The world holds two classes of men – intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. – Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri
Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends. – Woody Allen
I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. – Mark Twain
Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family. – Steven Colbert
What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution. – James Madison
Ignorance is 'bliss'
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. C.S. Lewis
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. Winston Churchill
The loneliest moment in life is when you have just experienced that which you thought would deliver the ultimate, and it has just let you down. Ravi Zacharias
The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful, and has nobody to thank. Dante Gabriel Rossetti
Humanism or atheism is a wonderful philosophy of life as long as you are big, strong, and between the ages of eighteen and thirty-five. But watch out if you are in a lifeboat and there are others who are younger, bigger, or smarter. William Murray
The real attitude of sin in the heart towards God is that of being without God; it is pride, the worship of myself, that is the great atheistic fact in human life. Oswald Chambers
Man is certainly crazy. He could not make a mite, and he makes gods by the dozen. Michel De Montaigne, Essays
There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions. G.K. Chesterton
A heathen philosopher once asked a Christian, 'Where is God'? The Christian answered, 'Let me first ask you, Where is He not?' Aaron Arrowsmith
Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance, but laying hold of His willingness. Martin Luther
Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God. Tom Stoppard
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God. Heywood Broun
What comes into our minds when we think about God, is the most important thing about us. A.W. Tozer
world Empty? Jesus said "I am the bread of life" - John 6:35
Stumbling? Jesus said "I am the light of the world" - John 8:12
Stressed? Jesus said "I will give you rest" - Matthew 11:28
Useless? Jesus said "I am the true vine" - John 15:1
Seeking Guidance? Jesus said "I am the Good Shepherd" - John 10:11
Alone? Jesus said "I am with you always" - Matthew 28:20
Without Hope? Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life" - John 11:25
Jesus said: In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you... And I will come back and take you to be with me that you may also be where I am - John 14:2-3
Jesus said: He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him - John 14:21
If there are things you do not agree with, God will make them clear to you - Philippians
Appreciate the differing point of view but religion is like Baskin-Robbins, there are many different "flavors". Christianity is but one. It is not better or worse than any point of view and toleration is the key. Remember, the finality of death is the coldest truth one must face. Religion makes the perfect distraction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? – Epicurus
hrutwulf - to believe that the finality of death is the coldest truth one must face is a 'fearful' statement. Your statement that religion is the perfect distraction is 'fearful' as well...or perhaps envious.
God is omnipotent and God grants free will...God is always forgiving not malevolent....
Let me offer a spiritual view....death is not the opposite of life. Life has no opposite. The opposite of death is birth.... Life with God is eternal.
Jpsval: If you are religious (which I believe to be true based on your comments) and believe the bible is real because of faith, I can't "bust you". Biblists pride themselves in believing in things that are hard to believe in. They feel god will bless them for that. But if faith isn't enough and you want history or fact in your bible you are looking in the wrong place. Don't get me wrong, your opinion is as valid as mine, just different. Be tolerant of others faith in the same manner as you want your faith and belief system to be tolerated.
Thank you for your input, jpsval. The quotations you've shared are interesting, but none of them are very convincing. The best one is the Churchill quote, but it would more easily defend the view of the non-theist than the believer.
It would be great if you would tell us who you are and if you are a Christian. If you are, tell us why you believe that Jesus was the son of God, was born of a virgin, later became the scapegoat for the sins of all humanity by being crucified on the cross, and miraculously came back life.
It would be of immeasurable help, too, if you could explain to us just how this mechanism works. How is it that the son of God (who really is just part of the main God) by allowing himself to be killed (although not really dead for good, since he re-animated 3 days later) absolves all of us for our sins?
Was God dead, too, during those 3 days, or were the Father God and The Holy Ghost still alive during that time? Was there just a dual God left in existence at that time, since 1/3 of The Trinity was out of commision? If Jesus is Lord and Lord is God, can a God really die, anyway? This is all so confusing, so please help us out.
hruthwulf - I agree with you and apoligize if I seemed overbearing....(blame it on the moment) my motto in life is taken from Lincoln; "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." take care......
Here are my questions I cannot reconcile:
1. Jesus implies that he's neither good nor God. Mark 10:18
2. Jesus says that heaven won't last forever. Mark 13:31
3. Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
4. Jesus thanks God that only the ignorant and foolish will listen to him. Luke 10:21
5. Two of Jesus' disciples failed to recognize him after his supposed resurrection. Could it be possible that was because the person they saw wasn't Jesus. Luke 24:16
6. Jesus claims that Moses wrote about him. Where? It's a shame he didn't give us chapter and verse. John 5:46
7. Jesus says that whatever you ask either him or his father for you will receive. John 14:13-14, 15:7, 15:16, 16:23
8. Jesus was cursed by God. Galatians 3:13
9. Whoever denies "that Jesus is the Christ" is a liar and an antichrist. If so, then there are about four billion antichrists now living. John 2:22
10. If you must accept Jesus as your Savior in order to be saved (John 14:6), what about the billions of beings that die as fetuses, infants, and mentally deficient, etc.? For them to accept Jesus would be impossible. So they are condemned to hell because of conditions over which they had no control. Deut. 32:4 says God is just, but where is the justice?
11. Is Jesus a false prophet since he wrongly predicted in Matt. 12:40 that he would be buried three days and three nights as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights? Friday afternoon to early Sunday morning is only 1.5 days.
12. How could Jesus be our model of sinless perfection when he denies he is morally perfect in Matt. 19:17 ("And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is God")?
13. How can Jesus be God when he repeatedly said he was not God's equal, wasn't God? Obvious examples are: John 14:28 (“...for my Father is greater than I”), John 20:17 ("I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God"), and John 7:16 ("My doctrine is not mine but his that sent me").
14. While on the Cross Jesus said, "Forgive them Father they know not what they do.” To whom was he speaking? They say, "God.” But I thought he was God. How can God speak to God if there is only one god? That's two gods.
15. In Matt. 16:28 Jesus said, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Yet, they all died and he never came.
16. Jesus told a man in Mark 8:34 that "whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me." The obvious question is: What cross? He hadn't yet died on the cross. There was nothing to take up. That man would have had no idea what he was talking about.
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees... I don't feel threatened.. I don't feel discriminated against.. That's what they are, Christmas trees.
....I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
..... where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about.. And we said okay..
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Chiziis - Here's your reading list:
1. I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek make the claim that all belief systems and world views require faith, including atheism. In a highly readable format, the book provides compelling evidence for the truth of the Bible and Christianity's claims
2. God Doesn't Believe in Atheists
Ray Comfort establishes the case that God does in fact exist, and that his existence can be scientifically proven. He also shows that atheists do not exist, and uncovers the motivation behind agnosticism.
3. Evidence for Christianity
Christians often have great difficulty answering the common questions of skeptics. This book can help by providing a biblical resource for your average, everyday skeptics and the Christians who wish to relate to them
The atheist’s days of running circles around the Christian with their darling questions are drawing to a close. Yes, the fat lady just wrenched herself off her humongous backside, has cleared her throat and now is fixin’ to sing the finale on the atheist’s ability to have fun with their specious little fairy tales at the Christians’ expense.
Authors Dinesh D’Souza and Robert Hutchinson skillfully answer, once again, the atheist’s pet questions about the existence (or non-existence) of God and how Christianity has allegedly made the world suck. Suck, for you thick atheists, is a slang word which means to make or to be really, really crappy (kind of like how our culture becomes anytime you guys mess with it).
These books will be especially beneficial for high school and college students to draw upon when their secular anti-God fuming delirious instructors start railing against God and Christianity.
1. When the prissy anti-Christs tell you the Bible stands in the way of science, inform them that the greatest scientific geniuses in history were devout Christians—and scientists from Newton to Einstein insisted that biblical religion provided the key ideas from which experimental science could develop.
2. When the pissy God haters tell you the Bible condones slavery, you can remind them that slavery was abolished only when devout Christians, inspired by the Bible, launched a campaign in the early 1800s to abolish the slave trade.
3. When the screechin’ teachers tell you the Bible has been proven false by archaeology, hark back and show them that each year a new archaeological discovery substantiates the existence of people, places and events we once knew solely from biblical sources, including the discovery of the Moabite stone in 1868, which mentions numerous places in the Bible, and the discovery of an inscription in 1961 that proves the existence of the biblical figure Pontius Pilate, just to name a few.
4. When they get sweaty and tell you that the Bible breeds intolerance, refresh their memory with the fact that only those societies influenced by biblical teachings (in North and South America, Europe, and Australia) today guarantee freedom of speech and religion. Period.
I think we have gone off-topic. This isn't my Blog so I defer to Chizzis. Also, for the record, I am not an atheist.
Here is something to research: Jesus was not the only messiah who lived in the first century. There were LOTS of people who claimed to be the messiah. For this discussion let's look at Apollonius of Tyana: http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/apolloni... (there are multiple websites, Google him and find one you like.
Apollonius was a charasmatic man who lived in the first century CE/AD. It is claimed that he healed the sick, he raised the dead, was able to walk thru walls of buildings, he was persecuted for his religious beliefs,he was brought to trial by the local Roman courts, he was crucified and after he died (we are told) ascended to heaven and he came back where his followers saw him.
Again, this is not the Jesus story--this is Appollonous of Tyana! Hearing so many other messiahs were walking around sounds weird, but it is true.
jpsval, you've done a great job of quoting Ben Stein here, but what do YOU think? Are Christians getting pushed around? If so, in what way?
Ben Stein is right, America is NOT an explicitly atheist country. He doesn't like atheism shoved down his throat, well who's doing that, and is someone doing it to you?
He says someone is not allowing him to worship God as he understands him. Who's stopping him? Is anyone stopping you? Certainly the government is not forcing him to worship celebrities.
Madalyn Murray O'Hair's name is spelled thusly, and yes, she wanted the removal of compulsory prayer in public schools, and that's a good thing. Is Ben Stein saying that students who read The Bible in school never shoot anybody? Does he have statistics to bear that out? How do we know that her assassin hadn't read The Bible?
God killed a lot of people in The Bible, didn't he? He even killed innocent people and children. 1 Chronciles 21, Deuteronomy 3, Joshua 6, Judges 21.
No religion has gotten it right. All are distorted by man.
There are two important reasons why humans distort/create/fabricate all of our religions:
People invent their personal god as a way to cope with death. Many humans are terrified by death for some reason. They invent religion as a way to deal with their terror.
People invent their god as a proxy for goodness. People want a way to promote "goodness" and eliminate "evil" in their societies. In the past, inventing an imaginary God has been perceived to be one way to facilitate that process. (My got has a bigger____ than your god).
So what has religion gotten is in the year 2011.
Let's ignore the danger of fanatical religious thought that can be found in the ashes of 9/11/2001, and the subsequent events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Madrid and London. There are many zealous and misguided Muslims who believe that, through Jihad, they must kill non-Muslims (and point to sections in the Koran that orders them do do so)-- Christians and Jews in particular. And there are many Christains who, ignoring Jesus' teachings, wish to retaliate in kind. Let's not forget the Protestand and Catholic wars in Northern Ireland. Let's ignore all that.
Let's ignore the ill effects of religion around the world over the last several decades. We have Muslims killing Christians (and vice versa), Jews killing Muslims (and vice versa), Protestants killing Catholics (and vice versa), Shiites killing Sunnis (and vice versa), etc., etc. All of it is completely pointless, because all human gods are imaginary (my imaginery friend is better than your imaginary friend). But let's ignore all of that killing and destruction.
Let's also ignore all of the insanity that religion has brought us through the ages -- the crusades, the witch hunts, Progroms in Russia and Polland, and Hitler's Genocide of WW2.
And let's ignore all the people that religion oppresses -- the women, the people who have been enslaved, the people who happen to be homosexual, etc. Let's ignore it because it is all water under the bridge.
In many Islamic countries, women cannot freely choose how they dress, much less what they do, where they work or how they behave. They often cannot even drive a car. The repression of women's freedom in Islamic countries is well known, and ridiculous. Additionally, educating women is frown upon. And, let's not forget genital mutilation to women in these cultures. Also, should you decide to renounce Islam and convert to another religion the penalty is death. (not convert or die....convert and die).
Organized religion is a sad commentary on mankind.
Let us not forget the cults and fringe (and hate) groups such as the Westboro Baptist Church run by Fred Phelps and his family. They are planning to go to Tuscon and protest at the funeral of the 9 year old girl murdered by Jared Lee Loughner who also assassinated a Federal Judge and critically injured a Congresswoman.
Their espoused belief is "God hates Catholics!" the flier, posted on the church's "God Hates Fags" website, says. "God calls your religion 'vain,' as it's empty of His truth; you worship idols!" See CNN article http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/ariz... bottom of the page.
My imaginary friend can beat-up your imaginary friend!
Thank you for the reading list, jpsval. I will look into those books, but I'm really more interested in what YOU think and why. If what you think jives with something that's in one of these books, tell us what it is, because it makes it a lot easier for purposes of discussion.
Most people reading this blog cannot go out and buy the book, read the whole thing and then come back and discuss it on this site, so how about you mention a few key points or arguments that resonate with you?
1. I'm wondering if you feel as though you don't have enough faith to believe in Santa Claus, or Zeus, or Big Foot?
2. How could God not believe in atheists? Didn't God create atheists? Didn't God create the whole concept of atheism?
Would you be so kind as to share with me and the readers here on this blog, one scientific fact that Ray Comfort has purported proves the existence of God?
3. How about stating one of the common questions of skeptics and how you and/or this book responds?