I agree anikisan, I take my 3 year old grandson and if he does not want to go to his little class during curch services, I do not force it. I also believe that it can have a negative affect on children to be forced at that young age. Glad to hearing a fellow christian voice my sentiments. God Bless
Yep, somehow in the modern American church we've gotten this weird inverted idea that church is some rationalistic adult society. We've got it totally backwards from Jesus who says the paradigm of faith and life in the kingdom is children (and adults who trust like them).
Sure he did:
Matthew 18:1-3 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
BTW we have a whole church full of kids and I've had 4 of them raised in the church. You have to "do" church mindful of and sensitive to the fact that there are frazzled parents and lots of kids out there. Don't make it long and keep it lively.
You write that jesus says to Matthew that unless he turns around and becomes childlike,you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.Do you realize how crazy that sounds?That sounds like something the Reverend Jim Jones would have told his flock just before having them drink their poisoned Kool-Aid.Anikisian,you have blogged about "REal Men" and now you show Jesus telling Matthew to act like a child.Sounds more like something Al-Queda,the Taliban and other fanatical Muslims would say.It definitely reconfirms my being an Atheist.With more peolple identifying themselves as Agnostics and Atheist,this means there will be far fewer children wasting their time in church and becoming weak mentally.This generation will be the ones who will truly defeat our enemies as religion wont fog their brains like it does to the men of this present generation who are weak mentally.There may be hope for our country yet.This is not to diminish our Troop's serving down range at this time as they are the exceptions to our current generation.
You’re not thinking this through with any depth. To become childlike means to acknowledge weakness before the Almighty and The King who sits at the right hand of the Father. It doesn’t mean you’re a physically or mentally weak fool. It means you acknowledge your human frailties. Sort of like the warrior-emperor Constantine becoming childlike before Jesus and then going forth in crushing conquest with the name of Christ written on his legionnaires shields at Milvian Bridge.
As proof this, the greatest days of power for the U.S. and empire for Great Britain were when both were explicitly and overwhelmingly Christian. This was an age of the accepted paradox that we stand like children before God but like giants among men. C’mon man, you can do better. Life is a paradox, so is the Christian Faith.
You have to think like a child to believe jesus BS.Hence the weak minds.If Jesus were alive today he would be in a nuthouse and people would be to smart to believe his BS.Maybe he wanted men to behave as a child so he could have his way with them like pedophile priest.Pretty sick individual.God must be a pedophile also as you say you stand like children before god.The giants part shows more of the phony BS as we know giants dont exist.God really is a good conman/woman.Imagine how Satan must be as he does'nt talk smack and make false promises like god.And I have'nt been reading or hearing about Satanist priest molesting children like the Catholics and Christians.By the way where is God at when these children needed to be protected from pedophiles?Takes one to know one I guess.
You're comments are irrational. It's just a series of grotesque assertions and doesn't constitute any kind of coherent response.
It has everything to do with religion.Have you been living in a cave or are you anther one of those clergy who covers up for pedophiles and other abuses of religious institutions.Talk about one having his head in the sand.Your ignoring my question about why God does'nt protect children from pedophiles speaks volumes.Are kids that go to"Heaven"goung to have to worry about pedophiles there to?Thank goodness people are waking up when it comes to organized religion and are staying home from church as they are protecting their children both physically and mentally.At least the Muslims protect their children.They execute child molesters while your people cover up for them.You cant give a coherent response because there is to much fact in my "assertions".You just have never met anyone with the guts to question your faith.Get used to it Padre,as more people like me are'nt afraid to speak out in this day and age.As I said though some people need religion for their crutch and there is nothing wrong with that.I have read the Bible and there are far more "Grotesque"things done in the name of God then what I stated in my last comment.When I ask Marines what they would like me to send them while they are deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan,not one of them has asked for a bible.Sometimes I'll ask them if they want one anyway just to hear their response and most of them reply"what for God aint gonna be able to protect my ass here".When I tell them I am an Atheist they dont pretend to be one or agree with me,but alot respond that they do question their belief in God.Like I said I am not trying to recruit people to become Atheist but I do tell my side of Atheism and how I grew up in a religious household and that to me religion is a sign of mental weakness that's when they respond that I make some very good points that they have'nt thought about before.Almost every time I talk to them now we talk about this issue and they tell me how they to are or have lost their faith.They really get amped when I bring up "where was God at and why did'nt he protect children from pedophile clergymen"?That is usually the straw that breaks the Camels back.In the old days if I spoke out about being an Atheist alot of people would turn their backs on me.Not anymore.Now they want to hear more of my reasons I am an Atheist.Alot agree with what I say and some dont,but no one ever turns their backs on me any longer.These are all college educated people,not people who work at Mcdonalds.This might explain why you are having converts in Africa and China while the rest of the educated world is walking away from religion.Definitely food for thought.
I'm a Protestant with a wife and 4 kids...not a padre. My denomination has never had a clergy pedophile incident. If my views were enacted we'd have the life sentences or the death penalty for child molesters.
Your arguments are childish, illogical and stupid. I must answer for "my people?" Pfft, they aren't my people anymore than you have to answer for the deeds of your atheist fellow travelers, Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin.
So, give a fellow Marine a little respect.
BTW as I asked in the other thread you commented on, why do you say pedophilia or murder for that matter is wrong?
I must be hitting a nerve.Childish,illogical,stupid describes people who believe in god.I dont understand your question why I think pedophillia or murder is wrong.Is it right by your standards.Alot of reverends,pastors or whatever your called have a criminal background and use religion to justify their past.This might explain you murder,pedophilia question.Einstein was an Atheist as are some of the greatest minds in the world.
I'll ask the question again in a different way. Since you're an atheist and assume everything is random, why is pedophilia wrong? The Greeks thought it was okay. On what basis can you tell them it was wrong?
BTW you're not hitting much of a nerve at all. It's frustrating trying to respond to you when you don't put spaces between sentences, accuse me of approving of pedophilia, don't use paragraph breaks, etc., etc.
On what basis do you assume that Atheist think everything is random?I dont look at rape as something random,do you?If so that would explain your attitude toward pedophiles.Oh and what do the Greeks have to do with anything,I am German/Irish.Pedophilia seems to bring out something in you and I dont know what it is,but alot of clergymen use religion to make up for their past.I hope this is'nt the case with you.Yet I am sure god approves of pedophiles because if he is supposed to see all,that means that when children were being molested and were praying to god to save them he just sat and watched.He truly would be a sick individual if he/she did exist.A very sick bastard indeed,meaning he has no right to judge anyone and neither do you.Real men would question why god allows kids to be raped.I know my freinds that are losing their faith feel the same way when I ask why their god would allow that.When someone who has a strong opinion about me being a proud Atheist I ask them what proof they have that god exist and when they cant answer the question, I say here's an easier question,if god does exist why does he watch children being raped and murdered and he does nothing about it when these children are praying for his help?This is the question that angers alot of people as they cant answer that question without looking stupid or like they are condoning god for allowing it to happen.I know that is a question that is going to stay with them a long time,while I sleep like a baby.Unlike them I have nothing to feel guilty for.I dont know why it is so difficult for you to read sentences with out spaces everyone else can.Must be that you squint with anger when you think about god and jesus being pedophiles.
I only have one thing to add to your magnificently incoherent diatribe: paragraph breaks.
Have a great Holy Week!
A brief introduction to church might be good for kids to help them understand what some people believe and how they go about expressing it. Being ignorant of the beliefs and practices of large portions of the population will not help anybody.
Got called out.Thought of you when the defacation hit the oscillation.Kept thinking if I get dumped and Anikisan doesnt know I'm history,how will I contact him from Hell theres an afterlife?LOL.Will get back to you as my body hurts,my sons need to know I am back.Right now I feel as if I was hit by a big rig.Twice.Breacher.
If you have something intelligent and enlightening to say, please do, but this rambling gibberish is just a waste of everyone's time.
In addition, in reference to what anikisan brought up about the Greeks earlier, what he was trying to get you to answer was, if you think that pedophilia is wrong and you don't get that from the bible, from where do you derive that moral standard? I'm a non-believer in the bible being the word of God, but anikisan is asking a fair and thoughtful question.
I'd have to agree too, with his contention that spaces between sentences and paragraph breaks make for much easier reading. You wouldn't want to read the newspaper if it was laid out the way you write, would you?
Chizz.I dont need the bible to tell me rape is wrong,shooting someone for no reason is wrong ETC.If you two have to have a book tell you that stuff is wrong,no frigging wonder people are leaving organized religion in masses not scene in this countries history.Do you need the bible to teach you to change your dirty shorts to?Brush teeth,bathe,pay for groceries?If that is the case more power to you.Mom taught me that,not a book.How's that for rambling gibberish?No worries,I will still be prepared to shed my blood for this country and your beliefs.I guess I will have to keep mine to myself as they dont meet your approval.Or you could let me and Aniskan carry on our conversation as we were before.Later Bravo.
From the preacher:
Look it's real simple. All you've told me and continue to tell me is what you do. Big whoop: "I'm a good boy and wash my dirty shorts and don't kill innocent people." The total weakness in your argument is that you haven't justified to me WHY you should behave this way. Because it's the right thing to do? Well, where did that come from? It's just breacher, a collection of atoms on a planet full of amazingly random but ultimately meaningless events, at some point on the time continuum, giving his absolutely, totally meaningless and absurd opinion. You have no moral authority or anchor to tell the Nazi to stop killing gypsies and Jews. Because your mom taught you...please.
Listen, if you want to dialogue, fine. If you're going to start talking crap again, I have better things to do with my time.
I never said I dont kill innocent people.The bible came after man was put on earth,so what did people do before then?Touche,case closed.I kill on orders from my CINC.Muslims and Catholics ETC kill over religion all over the world.And to call learning from mom means nothing means the virgin mary means nothing.Mom is the first teacher out of the womb.Face it,I've got you.You cant prove there is a god so you beat around the bush,showing why people are leaving the church.I hope this is'nt the kind a crap you teach your flock,cause theyre in trouble.Face it you need a crutch and a phony cult group is yours.Below pathetic.Or are you just in it for the women or children?Perveted.See you on the front page in cuffs one day.
That's right, you don't need The Bible to tell you that rape is wrong or shooting someone for no reason is wrong, but we weren't talking about that, were we? That is a priori knowledge. We were talking about an adult having sex with someone our society considers underage.
The Bible doesn't mention pedophilia. In fact, The Bible shows us that what we would arrest someone for today in our country was considered perfectly acceptable in those times. "The Pathway Machine" says "it was not uncommon for a young maiden, such as Mary for example, at the age of 15 or 16, to be married to a much older man, like Joseph for example, at the age of about 32. By modern day American standards that would be classified as pedophilia." Here is the link
I think what Preacher Anikisan is trying to get you to think about is, from where have you got your moral standard about pedophilia being wrong? Was it just because your Mum said so?
And why all the hostility? Don't we all want to get to the truth? Why is it that you don't welcome me into the conversation?
My answers below after your statements (you really need to put spaces between your sentences, something you should have learned in elementary school).
“The bible came after man was put on earth,so what did people do before then?Touche,case closed.”
Really, case closed? If you knew anything about the Bible and what Judeo/Christian people believe, you would know that the Bible is the final recording of the events within its pages. That means there were written accounts prior to this and the ultimate authority is God who was in covenant (agreement) relationship with mankind and the world prior to the Bible being fully canonized.
“And to call learning from mom means nothing means the virgin mary means nothing.Mom is the first teacher out of the womb.”
First of all, you need to cap “Virgin Mary” as it’s a title. Second, I’m not a Roman Catholic so the Virgin Mary is a teacher to me like all the prophets, priests and saints are so I have no idea what your crypto-Roman Catholic point is. Finally, you’re confusing yourself once again. Mom taught you everything? And where did mom learn that from? You wrote on another thread: “Sir.I to grew up as a Catholic.Choirboy and all.” Oh snap! Your mom learned something she passed on to you…from the church and the Bible. It’s all right here:
“Face it,I've got you.You cant prove there is a god so you beat around the bush,showing why people are leaving the church.I hope this is'nt the kind a crap you teach your flock,cause theyre in trouble.”
Got me? I’ve got you all over the place. I was a much better and consistent atheist than you ever were. I didn’t try to pretend that all is well and we should make the best of things and be nice to people. I said this whole damn enterprise, existence, is meaningless and the most consistent thing to do is kill oneself. But then, I found the truth and life made sense.
Now, as far beating around the bush and teaching crap in the church, blah-blah-blah, this is sad coming from you. It’s obvious you’ve got little education beyond high school. Ever read any Sartre? Camus? Derrida? Dostoevsky? Yeah, I didn’t think so. If you had you wouldn’t be so pompous in your pontifications on things that philosophers like these have already plowed over. My church is full of guys who are much smarter than me in many academic areas. In fact, we have a reputation for being a real sharp, but at the same time, humble congregation. So, you just leave the worrying about the flock of God to the professionals. Don’t want anybody getting hurt.
“Face it you need a crutch and a phony cult group is yours.Below pathetic.Or are you just in it for the women or children?Perveted.See you on the front page in cuffs one day.”
Okay, here we go again with the “ad hominem” attacks. Oh, don’t know what that is? Well, here is a definition: “is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.” To put it another way, it’s a cheap shot. People normally use it when they’re losing an argument like raising their voices instead proving their point.
“Perveted?” I suppose you mean “perverted.” This is called projection, breacher. Projectors push their own desires and weaknesses out onto others because they can’t deal with it in themselves. You seem to have a penchant for these things. I noticed that on another thread you said this about the blog writer: “And please I have spoken to some of your former students and will not be surprised to see the headline in our newsprint about you having inappropriate conduct with a minor.” Seems to be a pattern with you: write something smug but incoherent, get a smackdown, and then accuse the other person of being a pedophile. Methinks breacher protests too much. Are you a pedophile breacher? How could one know since you are so spineless you have nothing in your anonymous profile.
So, I’m supposedly just in it for the “women and children.” Well, as I’ve told you numerous times, I’m happily married (20 years this last year) and I’m raising 4 happy, well-adjusted children. Unlike you, I don’t mess around (particularly when one is supposed to be a man over 40). Like you said about my post on “Forging Men”: “Whats wrong with finding women for quick kicks and booty calls if both people consent and are having a good time.As a real man I have to disagree.” At age 47 I would hope real men would be busy preparing their kids for college and keeping their damn pants on.
So, who’s the pathetic one?
Every comment out of your illogical and pathetic mouth makes me want to spew. Your probably still mad because you got beat up at church camp for wearing a dress.
You spend your day on a Santa Clarita website harassing good people because you don't have anyone in real life who will talk to you because you probably don't know how to get out of your mother's basement on your own.
Go find an online spouse and find someone who actually cares about your infantile problems and lack of tact or respect for people far superior to your immature and undeveloped sense of self-worth.